EPISODE 14: DIMITRY SHVARTSMAN & TAYLOR MARGOT

In this episode of Cyber Thoughts, host Lucas Nelson is joined by Dimitry Shvartsman, co-founder of Prime Security, and Taylor Margot, Lucas’ partner at Lytical Ventures, for a special two-guest discussion. Dimitry shares his journey from two decades in security operations to co-founding Prime Security and explains how the company won this year’s Black Hat Startup Spotlight competition. The conversation covers how to craft a compelling application, the importance of cutting a pitch down to its essentials, and why storytelling matters just as much as technical credibility. Taylor offers insight into how founders can connect emotionally with an audience and turn a technical demo into a narrative judges can’t ignore.

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PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Lucas Nelson

Hi, welcome to Cyber Thoughts the podcast where we explore cyber scary through experts in the field. It is my pleasure today to change the format a little bit. We've got two guests, Demetri Trotson Trotson, and Taylor Margaux, who's my partner here. So let's start with you, Demetri. Let's do origin stories. I'm gonna explain who everyone is. And then we're going to dive into the spotlight competition for Black Hat. So Demetri, pleasure to have you.

Dimitry Shvartsman

Thank you so much for having me. So Dimitri, as you mentioned, Schwarzman, I've been doing security for close to 20 years now since we used to code InfoSec. Then for some reason, I woke up one day and he was like, you're doing cybersecurity. I'm like, that's a cool name. Why nobody used that when I was starting in this thing and nobody cared about this. Nobody wanted to do this. And when I was chasing after people with, you know,

Lucas Nelson

This is...

Dimitry Shvartsman

DLP policies, they were running away from me as if I was a vampire throwing garlic and stuff at me. So I was an operator most of the beginning of my career. Hey, I moved out from Eastern Europe when I was four. I'm talking about in general people not liking security. It just became cool. Yeah, of course. We always...

Taylor Margot

It sounds like Eastern Europe.

Lucas Nelson

Thank We're love security. the fun buns. Come on.

Dimitry Shvartsman

Also known in the industry as the yes man. We always say yes to everything, of course. Of course. So yeah, so I've been everything from incident response to forensics to cyber threat intelligence to critical infrastructure. I'm just skipping the boring parts. And prior to co-founding Prime Security, I spent six years at PayPal. And in my last role, I was senior director.

Lucas Nelson

Of course.

Dimitry Shvartsman

leading security strategy and working with some really, really cool people.

Lucas Nelson

Awesome. So we also have my partner Taylor Margot. Taylor, you don't talk about Lytical ever. So why don't you quickly give your background and maybe mention the firm we work at.

Taylor Margot

All right, so political ventures. As Dimitri might've alluded to, we're venture investors primarily see doing cybersecurity and AI. I come to this story from a legal background, also people known as yes men. I know, I know. It'll be wild if we can get through this without disagreeing on everything. Yes, I was at a firm called Wilson-Sincini for almost a decade. did VC and &A. 

Lucas Nelson

I'm so sorry.

Taylor Margot

You know, tally up all the numbers and you get to 21 billion in deals that I managed. But, know, I took the very.

Typical path of starting an AI company to deal with my burnout issues. So I did that in 2019. But before it was cool. In fact, I wish it was cooler. Lucas has pegged me on now. I always have the ability to be both too early and too late on deals. So yeah, started a generative AI company in 2019, AI, incredible ride, wrote it for five years.

Lucas Nelson

before we school.

Dimitry Shvartsman

Hahaha

Taylor Margot

Litical invested in my company, got to know the guys and came on here over a year ago. And now have the pleasure and honor of getting to work and coach founders like Demetri and, get them, get them on the spig, the big stage at black hat.

Lucas Nelson

All right, so I'm gonna set the table here. ⁓ Blackhat, everyone knows Blackhat. Blackhat has a start spotlight competition. I think this is the fourth year we've done it, third, fourth year. And Dimitri won this year's spotlight competition. So we're gonna talk about A, what that means to the company and Dimitri and B, how he did it so that if one wanted to apply and win one of these competitions, the future they'd have a better shot at that. So.

Why don't I jump to, make sure, why don't we start with, Hey, you just won. Congratulations. 120 companies applied for on stage at the end. we'll get into kind of the mechanics of all that in a minute, but why don't you start with, Hey, take a victory lap, man. Like you just want it. What was that like?

Dimitry Shvartsman

Thank you.

So I think you need to add this clapping sound every time you say Black Hat Competition or Winning Yet. I feel like there's some balloons that need to be popping up, but it's a podcast, so you need some sound for that. There we go, I think that's what you need. It is a phenomenal, absolutely phenomenal feeling because...

Lucas Nelson

Look at that post.

Taylor Margot

I don't have the soundboard handy. We'll get it in post.

Dimitry Shvartsman

It's not, I mean, yes, it's great to win, but the thing is the acknowledgement of the industry, of your fellow peers across a variety of backgrounds, but all comprise what we call the cybersecurity ecosystem. Looking at the problem that you're solving, looking at the solution that you've built and saying, this is innovative and especially, I think, like the cherry on top of all of it is that it is being done in a very technical setting when it comes to the Black Hat Conference. And even more so, it comes in day and age where spitting up companies, you know, just went from, need, you know, four guys in a garage to I need Wi-Fi laptop about a gallon of coffee.

And, you know, and chat GPT or whatever. Right. So like the barrier went crazy down. And so the fact that through all of this, you cut through and, people acknowledge, think that like that moment, that feeling is, is phenomenal.

Lucas Nelson

Excellent. So let me do the what happened, right? So you win the competition. Is it crickets afterwards? All of sudden everyone offers you all the money. Like what was what happened afterwards?

Dimitry Shvartsman

Yeah. I did say when Taylor said 21 billion, I was like, hey, can you and I chat for like a percent? Like, I'm not greedy. I'm just kidding, though. Things are... It made a lot of waves. And it made a lot of waves because there's not a whole lot of... Let me rephrase this.

Lucas Nelson

Yeah

Dimitry Shvartsman

There are lot of different competitions for startups across different areas and within different structures. However, when it comes to the cybersecurity broader ecosystem, we all know that there are two anchors in the year. The first one comes around April, March timeframe when we all kind of flock to San Francisco for RSA. And then the second one happens not that far after, which is for some reason we all

like Vegas in August, which we really that's what we should be talking about. But but

Lucas Nelson

I can tell you why. It's because when Def Con started back in 1994,

It was cheap and everyone was not in college. That's why it's that's why you're in Vegas in August is because it was cheap. Yep

Dimitry Shvartsman

Ha in August. And I respect that because that's, by the way, that quirkiness, those are the things that actually is what kept me, well, part of why it kept me in the industry for 20 years now. But that's besides the point. But those two anchors are massive. They're massive because that's where the industry gets together and each conference has its own place and its own weight. And so...the recognition, the understanding that at that conference, the company won, it's a whole different perception. It's a whole different understanding. It's not yet another conference. It's one of the two the conferences. And it's not even the one or the other. They're both at their level for, again, for different purposes. 

But they're both really, really important. And Lucas, your point, 120 companies applied, right? If it was a small thing, you would have 30 companies applied because that's kind of like the scale, the size of the conference. No, no, Everyone who's everyone needs and they understand that you gotta be, if not at both of them, at least at one of them. And when things get more technical side, well, then that's more black hat, DEF CON kind of experience, right? And so that, the magnitude of the event. So it's not just, we want a startup competition. We want the startup competition at Black Hat that gets people going, we should wait. What are you doing again? And so that kind of conversations that are happening both on the customer side and on the other side is exactly kind of the waves are a lot higher than.

Lucas Nelson

Okay.

Dimitry Shvartsman

than what I'll personally say, what even I anticipated. even I didn't foresee that, which is for a young company is absolutely everything.

Lucas Nelson

Thank you.

Taylor Margot

So let's take, let's take a quick step back. You know, you talked about these two pillars. got RSA and we got black hat. RSA has had a, you know, competition for exactly forever. But blackheads is new. Did you just automatically know about the competition? Did you assume that there was one? How did you hear about the spotlight competition?

Dimitry Shvartsman

Yeah. Well, I've been to Black Hat many, many times, right? Which to me, by the way, now that I look back, I go, how come Black Hat didn't have a startup competition up until recently? It's like one of those things where like, don't, that doesn't make sense now. So I, you know, and it's not a situation where we're not going to Black Hat. And throughout also the industry, I knew that there's a startup competition. People were talking about it.

companies were talking about it. So it wasn't that I logged in, right, to check whatever, like the dates or whatnot for BlackHat. And they were like, look at that. They're just like, no, no, no. I went to the BlackHat website to sign up for the startup competition and not to look at, you know, no offense on who's the keynote speaker, right? Like my priorities were different because I knew it existed. And we were...

Lucas Nelson

Okay.

Dimitry Shvartsman

And also one more important thing, wasn't a, we have 24 hours because we just realized that we forgot. No, we were prepping for this. It wasn't a fluke. Like we were seriously prepping for the competition.

Lucas Nelson (11:29)

So the entry is a video. It's five minutes. So I got to watch 125 minute videos, which is a lot. So how did you, and I'll let Taylor drive this piece, but how did you make your video? How did you think about, know, did you record on a laptop in an afternoon? Did you, I know, hire a lighting team? Like.

Taylor Margot

So go ahead, Luke.

Lucas Nelson

What did you do and how do you think about that?

Dimitry Shvartsman

So we, first of all, we sat down to break down and focus on the script. So the competition does a very good thing where it details the topics that the judges expect to see. And it's kind of like, you got to hit those topics. How you do it, that's your problem. But as long as we, the judges can understand that you reference to whatever, your market, your competition, the problem that you're solving, right? And so we sat down with...

that in mind and started breaking down and writing our script. And when we recorded and we were like, okay, this is too long, let's shorten this. So we shortened it and we were like, great. And so we do the first take and it's exactly nine minute long. So it's almost double the time that it needs to be. And we go, okay, I guess we have a bit more work here to do. And so it was, I don't remember.

Lucas Nelson

Now you didn't just put it in two times and have it be four and a half minutes you were done.

Dimitry Shvartsman

I was talking fairly fast, but I also realized that if I go that fast,  it might not impress the judges. And so, good call on my behalf. So there was a lot of cutting and I think that's the first ⁓ real challenge. And that is, where do I put the emphasis? Which is important because as a founder, to you, all the categories that are there are important.

I want to talk about competition to indicate that I'm not making this up, that there are others who kind of validated this pinpoint and they exist and we're in this space together. I want, obviously, to talk about customers. I want to give exact use cases where customers use us to show that, hey, we are solving a problem. Only those three things, I can talk for about 35 minutes, Double speed. ⁓ So the first challenge is how do I shorten and still keep my story without losing the essence of what I'm trying to get across in a 5 minute video, preferably 450, so that it's not

Dimitry Shvartsman

super rushed towards the end. ⁓ And regarding the recording...

Taylor Margot

Well, okay. So in, in writing, say kill your darlings. What did you cut? Like that's, that's a lot of stuff. Give us some examples. Remember we want to, if you're listening to this, I hope that you're trying to think about applying next year. And I want to meet you to say like, no, your brilliant idea is not that brilliant. That part should be left on the cutting room floor.

Dimitry Shvartsman

wow.

Lucas Nelson

Thank you.

Dimitry Shvartsman

I'll give you one of the hardest ones. The use cases and the customers that we wanted to bring forward. Because you have a debate and you go, but this customer comes from this industry, so it's important. But this use case is super interesting because that can be replicated across that entire vertical. And so there is more impact to that. Wait, wait, wait. But for that customer, we solved something super critical.

And that saved them so much time. Exactly. And that is the use case that we're talking about by leveraging AI. And now all of a sudden, you're like, okay, well, what do I cut? And so that was one of the hardest pieces that we were trying to leverage. By the way, what we resulted, and hopefully that got across, was we were trying to find one or two examples that hit directly the problem that we're trying to solve in a very simple yet clear way, explain how we did it.

Lucas Nelson

So this might be a good time to have you quickly say what you guys do.

Taylor Margot

Excellent.

Dimitry Shvartsman

Hahaha

Lucas Nelson

So let's practice this. You've got way less than five minutes. What does prime do?

Dimitry Shvartsman

So Prime is an agentic security architect that integrates at the earliest stage of product development lifecycle, which is the design. So when we sit down and think about what do we want to build, and it could be anything from, we need a new set of APIs or this feature needs a revamp, and we document it. And we document it in documents and in task management systems.

We break it down. So we integrate in that part and we do these reviews. So security reviews at scale for the first time, there's an ability to marry between the business objectives, business context and security requirements and provide those security requirements in a preemptive matter before development starts. that developers are not pissed at us by saying why, like I'm about to launch this thing.

and you just did a security review and now I have four pages of recommendations. So I'm not happy with you, Mr. Security. How was that? Was that under five?

Lucas Nelson

So awesome, I'm gonna summarize it in one sentence, AI security design review. Did I get it right?

Dimitry Shvartsman

See, you even better. Yes. 

Taylor Margot

I got a better one. 

Lucas Nelson

That's my entire job is to be reductive. All right, Taylor, you take it away.

Taylor Margot

Turn the InfoSec team into the S-man, right? Like we're getting out there early.

Dimitry Shvartsman

that pretty much, or at least find and be aware of all the risk that exists across development. Not because developers are doing something wrong, but because they're running as fast as the business requires them. And they don't necessarily think that if they're only changing or adding six new APIs, they need to go to security for an approval, which they shouldn't. security needs to know that these new six APIs are now exposing a bunch of data. And it might be okay, but just need the right controls in place. So to balance that visibility gap, that's exactly what we're bringing to the table.

Taylor Margot

Okay, so now you've got your application submitted. You've cut it down from nine to four 50, uh, four 49 and a half on the dot. What, what comes next? So you're going to, hear back, you find out you're a finalist and then you start changing it. What did you, what was your process? What was your thinking from, okay, we're going to be on stage and we'll get into the actual day of and tell people about that. But what.

Taylor Margot

What was the process from, I know I'm going to black cat now to be not just  a wholesaler, but actually on stage. What am I going to change? What am I doing?

Dimitry Shvartsman

So to all who are listening and I really highly recommend you apply for next year. After you've submitted it and after you've heard that you got accepted, the next thing you do, you talk to Taylor. That's like if you ask me for two steps is apply, win the first round and then go ahead and straight talk to Taylor. Jokes aside.

Taylor Margot

You're saying you did not, you did not do that. You spun a bunch of cycles before you talked to me. I remember, I remember I came up and gave you a hug right after you won. And you were like, man, like I changed like half my pitch after we talked. So like walk us through that.

Lucas Nelson

Thank you.

Dimitry Shvartsman

Ha! Yes. Exactly.

So I think that's exactly the essence of what I'm about to say. We've showed what we, the video we've recorded and the deck that we built for the presentation to a lot of people. And by the way, those lot of people included, you know, the typical friends and family who are not in the industry and who are looking at it through a fresh set of eyes and they can be in sales, marketing, whatever.

Because they can ask you questions of understanding or lack thereof that you haven't even thought of. And you go, if they don't get it, then I'm not explaining it well enough. Now, obviously, the judges are from the industry. They understand they have the background. Great. But it needs to be attractive and it needs to be hitting certain spots that it's not...to fine-tune to security. It needs to be widely applicable and it needs to attract people to, ⁓ what are you, wait, again, okay, interesting. okay. So that's, okay, great. ⁓ So one thing that we did is we talked to people, we've presented, and then once you do that, things that are so obvious to you that you don't even pay attention, others are saying, and here's a prime example to a feedback from Taylor.

That I didn't even think of, which contributed to change in the demo recording that we did eventually that went on stage, was, Taylor, because I had even Wi-Fi problems, remember, when we were talking? And I explained to you what we're going to do. And you go, OK, but make sure, and it's super tactical, but make sure that all those sections in the video where you… show how you filter things and you get to that next screen, which is where you have the result that you're interested in. He goes, nobody's going to care about that. you get a, know, if you need to save time, skip through that, but spend more time on the actual result of the, of the output, because that's what you want to show, because that's the aha moment. And then I went after that call and I looked at the video and I go, wow, I'm spending so much time on stuff that I find interesting and important. Like, the uber advanced filtering capabilities that we've built. And then I kind of overlay Taylor's feedbacks like, dude, you have five minutes on stage. What are you talking about? Who's going to pay attention to those filtering capabilities? That's not the essence of your product. The essence of the product is the output. And so we sat down with the editor and we redid the video that eventually was shown on stage where we spend more time, for example, on the outputs so that we can highlight

Lucas Nelson

Okay.

Dimitry Shvartsman

what the product brings to the customer, again, tying it to the value prop versus all the mechanical aspects of how we got there. And that just was a voiceover.

Lucas Nelson

So I feel like you could jump in really fast here. Taylor, like we didn't do a great job of pointing out why you got to work with all the teams. So you were on stage at Black Hat giving the anti-VC, VC pitching. You tell me the name of your talk, but essentially how to pitch VCs. These were terrible people. storytelling.

Give me a quick, because you've been doing this for a couple years before you joined us. give your background on why people should listen to you.

Taylor Margot

Yeah. So I think I've got to sit in all three chairs in sort of the venture community. Now I first was in the lawyer's chair, went to hundreds of board meetings and just got to watch. Then I was a founder and that's when I realized, Oh shit, 99.99 % of VCs are full of shit. You know, my number one advice to early companies is, uh, uh, that the number one mistake early companies make founders make when fundraising is taking advice from VCs. And then I get over into the third chair.

Dimitry Shvartsman

Hahaha

Taylor Margot

And it's true. So I've been, gosh, since 2020, I've been developing and teaching a series called the anti VC guide to VC fundraising. And much of that tenant is around people make decisions when they've been moved and then look for concrete reasons to validate that decision rather than looking initially at reasons and then coming to a decision.

Dimitry Shvartsman

Ha

Lucas Nelson

Yeah.

Taylor Margot

And so the savvy founder, the savvy pitcher, the savvy presenter can use that to their advantage by first compelling an audience, identifying what's going to make them lean in, basically make a gut decision that they're already in favor and wants you. And then they start actively looking all in the subconscious levels for reasons to buy reasons to buy you reasons to buy your product reasons to buy your company. And so we.

Take that and then you can walk it around. You can walk it around to presenting a blackout. You can walk it around to pitching a company to a VC. You can walk it around to pitching a first customer or a hundredth customer. these are all storytelling tactics, rather than I'd say even, you know, sales or something like that. it probably falls under the broader umbrella, but I would argue that we've been telling stories before we were selling products. So I'd put that up on top.

So I, I basically had the opportunity to work with all of the founders that were the finalists, to tune their tune, their shit up, basically take it from the recorded presentation, that you sent over the internet to a stranger, who you had never talked to and then get it to be storyworthy, get it to be something that on stage people couldn't say no to. And, and Dimitri pulled that off, with flying colors. What Dimitri did not say is that.

And now I want to hear you talk a little bit about like the actual day of, but Dimitri won both the popular vote, which was everybody in the audience times three. There was more votes than there were people. won't get into that. and then also the judge vote. But tell us about, I guess, if there's anything from the storytelling component that transferred over and then how did that carry over to the onstage experience and what that day was like?

Lucas Nelson

Hahaha.

Dimitry Shvartsman

So I will actually start from a little bit before that just to echo the importance of storytelling. think, and I'm going to say this tenfold to technical folks, because we so are deep in our stuff and we so know it that there's this perception, which I also had, so I'm no different, that, oh, if I know it so well, I can say it.

so well. And that's such a bullshit. You think you can do this, right? And so even before that, I have a very good friend. Her name is Mila, M-I-L-A, ⁓ and she's a professional. Her thing is storytelling. That's her business, right? And so before even we submitted the video, I sat down with her and I go, hey, here's what we're thinking. And she really

Lucas Nelson

Yeah. Okay.

Dimitry Shvartsman

like highlighted all the areas where our storytelling wasn't strong enough. And I think again, and then Taylor did the same thing again, pre-stage. And it's those pointers that you think you know, and

you realize that you don't know how to articulate it in a compelling story way. And so that connects directly to the day. 

I've presented many times, right? Speaking of, I've presented at RSA a couple years ago in front of whatever it was, 400 people room. And yet, I'm all shaken up and trying to remember to breathe every single time before I get on stage. And anyone who tells you otherwise either is lying or...

Orz line, right? I haven't met a speaker that is not... Right? I've never... And I've met some amazing people who do this for a living and every single time before they get up they're like, oh dude, they have their ways of prepping. So my way of prepping...

Lucas Nelson

Yeah. Okay.

Taylor Margot

You know,  yeah, how to present. I get stage fright. I get stage fright too.

Lucas Nelson

You're shaking up bottle of soda, right? It's both good and you're about to pop.

Dimitry Shvartsman

Exactly, exactly. you're hoping that you're going to pop in the right direction and not just kind of like go all over. 

Lucas Nelson

Yeah. There's always that minute when you get up there you're like, am I about to, nope, no I'm good. Yeah.

Dimitry Shvartsman

Yeah, to me that moment was right after I shook Caleb's hand and is like, your time starts now. And I go, wait, okay. This is where I'm pointing. And to me, the prep mode was for like 40 minutes before that, I was walking around with my headphones ⁓ as if I was getting to box for the world champion or whatever. But I was like walking around pacing.

Lucas Nelson

Yeah.

Dimitry Shvartsman

And the thing was, yes, I was practicing what I'm going to say. But more than that, I was trying to very hard and very mindfully prep myself for what I'm trying to get across if I get stuck when it came to my script, which is also a thing, too, that you kind of pointed to me was don't talk about it. Don't, you know.

be in this robotic way of just hitting the points. And I think that is a very important and oftentimes tricky thing of keeping it aflow versus, ⁓ wait, I forgot point, know, third slide, subsection C, I was supposed to say this about the market and I didn't. It's hitting the main things I want the judges to hear versus,

So to me, the planning phase was getting the story right and getting the message that I need to get across, even if I get off the script, way more important than everything else.

Lucas Nelson

Okay. So, thank you for staying with us. We'll you next time.

Taylor Margot

Yeah, there's two, there's two things when it comes to presenting, styles, one is you've memorized the whole thing to the comma and pause, which is possible, but takes an inordinate amount of time and has very high stakes if it goes off. And the other is that it's different every single time, but you know, the information. Absolutely nails the ladder is superior because from a storytelling perspective, if you have the story arc,

It just flows. You're not focused on the points. You're focused on conveying why you're doing what you're doing and why that matters. And you can't almost can't get stuck because that's your, that's sort of your, your guiding, guiding light there. And you're not focused on, did I remember as you said, so bullet C on slide six, and instead of focusing all those brain cycles there, you're just focused on yourself and the audience.

Lucas Nelson

Thanks.

Dimitry Shvartsman

By the way, it's super interesting that you mentioned this because I did try the first method that you mentioned, because I memorized it. And then I remember I was presenting this to someone, I think it might have been my wife. And I caught myself forgetting subbuluzi. And then you can almost track that in your mind. It's like, shit, you begin to panic. And they're like, wait, but I'm off my time. And then you start to mumble and then it's off. So, real example.

Lucas Nelson

I find it's like teaching, right? If you're teaching something, you know, like I can go up and give a 30 minute lecture on venture capital, whatever. And that is super simple. But if I'm introducing somebody and I have to remember like their three last jobs they had, that is incredibly hard. And I better have note cards, right? He's like, my God. So yeah, if you're just like, I know this and I'm just going to tell you what I know in some sort of conversational manner.

Dimitry Shvartsman

Ha ha.

Lucas Nelson

That's easy. If you're trying to like, nope, I need to make sure I say that you worked at CISA for 20 years. man, I'm in trouble.

Taylor Margot

Well, let's turn this around for one second, Lucas. You sat there and had not seen Demetri yet on stage. You had seen his pre-application, but what if this is memorable to you when you were in the judge's chair? 

Lucas Nelson

Mitri was really well dressed. Nah, I'm kidding. I mean, yeah, he was well dressed.

Dimitry Shvartsman

by the way, side note,

Taylor Margot

I think he was wearing all black, everybody.

Dimitry Shvartsman

thank you, but side note, this is not for the audience's ears, but there's a whole conversation about wardrobe that once we get off this podcast, I'll tell you, it's funny you should mention that, but that's a whole different conversation, sorry.

Lucas Nelson

I can't wait. I'm sorry to our audience that you're going to miss out on that.

So I will say Black Hat is slightly different than many competitions, not all, but many, in that we require a demo. ⁓ And the demo to me is kind of the key, right? Because you've all been to cyber security websites and they all look the same, right? Like you're either like

You can't tell what a company does from their website. He's like, we secure things. You're like, okay, great. Uh, so watching a demo is suck a key piece of it. And you talked about, you know, you edited it and so, but like your demos like, Oh, I understand exactly what this is. Right. I get why it's useful. And the last one, and this one is sort of out of your control. Once you're on stage is, and it's different because let me be clear. You guys are using AI.

Everyone is using AI, right? So like for cybersecurity, like I'm attacking a piece of the problem that not everyone else is attacking. There's not 25 or 30 companies that submitted doing what you're doing. So you guys have a unique take on, there's this problem in cybersecurity that isn't being tackled by everyone. And Oh, by the way, it's important and it's underfunded or under thought about, um,

And so that to me was what really shined. was, know, yeah, I'm using AI, but I'm attacking the piece of the puzzle that most people aren't. And here's why that piece is important. So that's what I saw.

Taylor Margot

What I'd highlight in there is that it sounds to me like to bring it back. Those are the reasons by that point you had already picked. I don't know when it happened. I don't know how it happened, but something about how Demetri was on stage, either the problem presentation, the beginning with the Death Star or somewhere along the line, you went from interesting to why is this the winner?

Lucas Nelson

I don't... It's interesting. I don't know if it's true or not.

Taylor Margot

And I encourage you to say no, I have so many examples.

Dimitry Shvartsman

Interesting, interesting.

Lucas Nelson

But it's a fair point, right? Like part of the problem is you can't, I mean, maybe you can know your subconscious mind. I don't know my subconscious mind, right? So like.

Taylor Margot

No, no you can't. That's the beauty. That's why we attack that. That's the weak link.

Lucas Nelson

Yeah, like what's it's hot cognition? Is that there? Is that the phrase that people use? Right? Like there's there's there's analytical thinking and then there's like hot cognition, which is like, feel something therefore I'll rationalize behind why I feel the thing right versus you tick all the boxes and therefore you win.

Taylor Margot

Sure, sounds good. Look, Daniel Kahneman won the Nobel peace prize on this theory or maybe it's present economics, excuse me. But basically studying this exact phenomena. So, you know, he might've figured a thing out. Where do you want to go next?

Lucas Nelson

All right, so. I, we've got most of the stuff I care about in here, but ⁓ what, you know, what specifically, so you changed some of the story arc. What was the story arc you were trying to like give people the story you were trying to.

Dimitry Shvartsman

I think the main aspect was, I wouldn't say struggled, but going back to the storytelling piece, obviously we, like many other companies, even not all of them, adjusted our story from when we started to where we are at now, to what we're building and how we're pitching it. And so there were many times where I would get on the call and I would explain what we were doing in so many words. And in my mind, it was like, oh, I nailed this one.

And I see the glazing on the other person's eyes. And it's not because they're not professional. No, no, they're like this Uber technical being in product security for I don't know how many years. So they get it. It's just that there was something about how I got the message across that they were like, can you start again? Like, I'm not sure that I'm following. I'm like, oh crap. And so the first piece was how can I, and it's not different than any others are doing it, but it's mostly around

How can I create an understanding of the problem in a aha moment of, ah, I know exactly where you're located in the broader, super complex ecosystem of code-based products that's called this way, right? What we're all here protecting. So you're not in the...

efficacy of findings from like cold vulnerabilities. Like my whole objective was, look, I'm about to place you where in that space that we're starting from. And the next thing that was important to me was to highlight, look, it's not a new space. It's a space that's been there since the beginning of times. It's just that we had to treat it manually because there was no technological

Lucas Nelson

Okay. Okay.

Dimitry Shvartsman

tool to start turning this into something that is more systematic and automated. And so once I was able to place you in that space, I wanted to indicate, look, it's a big problem because here are all the things that can

happen and are happening, whether if it's security we work that is impeding and hitting the company's budgets, whether if it's actual incidents, like there's such a long...

of things that are happening because of this. So it is the catalyst of a lot of problems. Now, once I got that, let's talk a little bit about how we're solving this. Now, this piece was extremely important and that is I did not want to come across, especially at Black Hat being the technical conference that it is, knowing that the people in front of me can tear me apart if I'm, you know, for a second questioning their technical abilities.

To me, the explanation had to make sense. Like, this is not voodoo magic. I am not AI AI for everything and it's going to solve world hunger. Like, this is where we use LLMs. This is why we use it right here. This is how we calculate risk and talk. To me, trying to get that packaged was extremely important so that I will not be perceived as this hand-waving persona that, you know, talking about a real problem,

But the solution is like, you know, he just quickly said one plus one equals five. And that was too fast. And so I don't trust even that process. And then eventually, you know, once that has been in place, the intent was, look, here is here a couple of examples of real world, you know, how companies are actively using it. And that was also important because the whole AI hype and there's a lot of

Yeah, but I don't really trust it. I don't know how to use it. And so to me, was important to cut through that as well. Because like you said, everyone is doing security with AI these days, right? And lastly, it was important to say, here is the existing market size. Here's what we're doing about it. So simplicity was key because it's a complex matter. And it was simplicity not in a way that I don't believe

Lucas Nelson

Good. Thank you.

Dimitry Shvartsman

the audience can understand what I'm talking about because it's too technical for them. It was the other way around. The audience can rip me apart if I'm not clear enough that I understand my tech and that my tech actually makes sense.

Lucas Nelson

That is, yeah, that it is a difficult audience for that reason, right? Like you're trying to be high level in five minutes and yet like, yeah, people want to like, wait, exactly how do you use an LLM? And yeah, that's unique that always. So let me ask a very, focus question and then we'll kind of broad things and wrap it up. But what are the, you know, you used an editor, you said, like, what are the things that you felt?

elevated that piece of it. What are the, you know, if you said, oh, you know, I'm gonna do this again, who would you hire? Not who, but like, what are the pieces that you feel like, yeah, that's a must have and no, don't waste your time on

Dimitry Shvartsman

So, 100 % a function that helps analyze storytelling. 100%. Sitting down and building a script, I don't believe you need to hire anybody to do that. If you can't do that, then you have other problems. But it's only you, when I say you write the founders or whatever, that need to do that, because only you know how to take this apart and put it together that it makes sense. Filming...

I don't think you need on one hand the whole shebang with like the lights and everything. You do need a professional that can find the right angle that has like even like the whatever the microphone because at one point you were trying because we all have pronunciations. We all have, you know, some of us have accents or whatever. And when you're not hitting and it could be not because you're not saying it right or because you don't know the language because

Just at the time you had a shitty microphone and when you said something, nobody understood what it says. And to you in editing, whatever it sounds right, but it's actually nobody understood what you just said. So I would say semi-professional, I guess, when it comes to the technical aspect and uber-professional editing. Because the person that works with you, it's not about the fancy elements, it's about...

You as a technical founder don't necessarily have the artistic vision of all the little aspects that can be added to shave off extra four seconds, but still get the idea that you want to cross. From that perspective, I'm saying get a professional editor.

Lucas Nelson

Nice. I'm going to throw out one thing that has been wildly helpful as a dud with people with accents and everyone has an accent to somebody else. The having the transcript at the bottom of the screen, about 5 % of our companies had that and like, boy, it makes it easier when, you know, I, I, I'm not from the same place you're from.

Right? Like, I won't pretend that my accent's awesome, but like,  that's what he's saying. That word right there. Yeah, it's super helpful.

Dimitry Shvartsman

Brilliant. Yeah, absolutely brilliant suggestion. yet another thing that I'm taking away from this. 

Lucas Nelson

Close? Yep.

Alright, so normally I end with a bunch of questions, of rapid fire. Taylor, we decide not to do books this time. What did we decide to, what was the random question we decided to ask? Do remember? I've thrown Taylor under the bus. Unfortunate. I thought you had the notes up.

Taylor Margot

Yeah, no,

Dimitry Shvartsman

Hahaha

Taylor Margot

we're under the bus that I do not have that one in our notes

Lucas Nelson

Come soon. Oh well then, then Demetri, why don't we, why don't we go with, you know, what's your, what's your favorite book? Um, you know, what, what are you reading now or yeah.

Taylor Margot

Sounds like book.

Dimitry Shvartsman

Wow. What's your favorite book?  I've got a lot, but I would say one that was  super memorable that I read, not lately, but like some time ago. And the reason why I'm excited yet another time excited about this is because there's actually a movie coming out and I'm a little concerned about how they're to get it across, but it's called Project Hail Mary.

And it's by the same author that wrote The Martian and Andrew Weir exactly. And so, by the way, I tried to read as soon as something of his gets published, I tried to hit it right away. And it's a phenomenal, like also to me, it's an amazing storyline. It's a very unique storyline. I don't want to spoiler it for anyone who hasn't read it. But I will say that one of the things that I love about

Lucas Nelson

Yep, Andrew Weir? I think it's Andrew Weir.

Dimitry Shvartsman

most about it is the attitude of the individual in that. it's very much aligned with as a founder, like, this is that's, wow, this is so bad. So, so bad. And then like, all right, let's, start unpacking this. Like what can we do? What can we fix? What cannot be fixed and yet need to be accepted. And so that that's by far the same, by the way, same concept with the Martian, right? Like how the thought process behind problem solving, like very, very

Lucas Nelson

You fix a problem, you fix another one, and you fix enough of them, and you get home, right? Yeah.

Dimitry Shvartsman

Exactly. It's like exactly. It's like step by step, like baby steps. And that to me is, I love his writing.

Taylor Margot

Well, I got a much more important question, which is, what's your favorite conspiracy theory?

Lucas Nelson

That's awesome.

Dimitry Shvartsman

Ooh, my favorite conspiracy theory. Wow. That is a curve line. Yeah, no, I actually love this. My favorite conspiracy theory. No, mean, it's not holding back because I have so many. It's picking the one that is the most. 

Lucas Nelson

That's what it was. Okay. Good work Taylor.

Taylor Margot

Shani on the spot.

Lucas Nelson

you

Taylor Margot

Don't hold back.

Lucas Nelson

Okay.

Dimitry Shvartsman

There is a parallel universe, there's an underground, pretty much world. And that there people who live there, and that there are different entries and exists, that if you know, know. If not, then, you know. And that it's actually aliens, and it's being covered up. Not being told to the public, but essentially the governments all know it. One of my favorite ones.

Lucas Nelson

All right, Taylor, putting you on the spot to end this thing, what's your favorite conspiracy theory?

Dimitry Shvartsman

Ha

Lucas Nelson

Yeah.

Taylor Margot

Well...I'll go with, I'll go with, the one that we were just talking about there living under the mountain, that's the Lemurians, who live under Mount Shasta.

Dimitry Shvartsman

So you do know this one.

Taylor Margot

Yeah, I know it quite well in fact. But I'm going to go with the Pleiades, which is the constellation of about, I believe it's seven sisters in the night sky, but that they were a pre-race of humans that effectively abandoned earth and left it to us and then have enshrined themselves in the sky to sort of like oversee, overlook and and judge more or less. 

But we can thank the Pleiades for everything that we hate and love. I don't know their relation to the Lemurians, so I gotta stop there.

Dimitry Shvartsman

I feel like there has to be one and it goes through like a secret laser, I think, that only the chosen ones know how to control. I don't know, that's kind of like... Yeah, if you know, know. 

Taylor Margot

If you know, know. Yeah, it's simple.

Lucas Nelson

Yeah, space-list version. All right.

With that, I'm going to thank both of you. This was fantastic. Dimitri, thank you so much. Taylor, thank you for joining us. It's been a pleasure. You guys have a great day. Thank you to our audience. Cheers.

Dimitry Shvartsman

Thank you.

Taylor Margot

Happy to be here.

Dimitry Shvartsman

Thank you.

Taylor Margot

Later Lucas, see you Demetri.

.